Understanding the People You Love: The Power of the Color Code With Dan Call

Why does one child need to talk everything through while another shuts down? Why do some people crave connection, others need control, and others simply need space?

In this episode of The Polaris Connection, we sit down with Dan Call to explore the Color Code... a powerful tool for understanding what motivates us and the people we love.

We talk about how understanding the different personality colors can help you:

✨ Better understand your child’s behavior and motivation
✨ Recognize what you need and why you respond the way you do
✨ Communicate more effectively with your spouse, children, friends, and coworkers
✨ Navigate conflict with more understanding
✨ Stop expecting everyone to think, feel, or respond the way you do
✨ Build stronger, more meaningful relationships

Because sometimes the biggest shift in a relationship isn’t getting someone else to change... it’s finally understanding why they are the way they are.

This conversation is insightful, practical, and one you’ll probably find yourself thinking about long after it ends.

We want to hear from you! Follow us and leave a comment on our Instagram at ThePolarisConnection or reach us at Info@PolarisAcademy.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Kids do not need a perfect parent. They don't need a perfect parent. What they need is a parent who's willing to understand them and what their needs are.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Players Connection, connecting parents of autistic children with industry experts. Each week we navigate the world of autism together, bringing you real conversations from specialists who truly did it. The journey is challenging, but you don't have to walk it alone. So settle in, get cozy, let's connect and do some good. I am your host, Brad Broils, and I'm here with my conflict ninja and sledgehammer buddy Nathan Palmer.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Wow, conflict ninja and sledgehammer. I've never seen a ninja wield a sledgehammer, but I'd like to think that I could figure it out because that's just how I operate, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Now, so a conflict ninja is a white for a for like for peace or whatnot, and then a sledgehammer is a red. So I have no idea what this means. A red, white, blue of personalities. And so you talk about it all the time. I'm always confused. So we went out and we got Dan Call over here from Utah to kind of help explain this. And Nathan, what is red, yellow, blue, green?

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So um welcome to the wonderful world of color. And uh listen, on this podcast, we've talked a lot. I mean, um I mean a lot about conditions. I follow your lead, Brad. And we talk about resources for autism. And one thing, one thing that's been a tenant, I think it was Rachel Kruppy that really coined this, and we've just hammered it ever since. There's my hammer.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

That all behavior is communication. Yeah. Right? And that that's a tenant of ABA. And for those that are new to autism and ABA, it stands for applied behavior analytics or analysis, and it's the study of behavior and the asking why behind behavior. Well, a lot of that's driven for behaviors that we're either trying to mitigate or that we're trying to understand. And I'm not going to geek out a lot, but there's what we call functions of behavior. Like why is a child doing this? There's generally four. We kind of talk about five, but in those, there's is their behavior a sensory-driven behavior? Like did something in the sensory environment set them off? Is it an avoidance behavior? Is there something they don't like that they're trying to get away from? Um is it an access behavior? There's something that I actually want, and I'm using behavior to get it. Is it autonomy? Am I just trying to get independence, right? Attention, do I just want you to look at me? There's these questions we ask. And the reason that's important is because a child yelling might be yelling one because they're triggered because of the environment, or they might be yelling because they want your attention, or they might be yelling because they want to get something, or they might be yelling because they're trying to avoid something. And if you only take it at the yelling, and I want you to stop yelling, you're almost going to do whatever it takes to get them to stop yelling. But if you don't go the next level of, but why are you yelling? We're not understanding and we're not being able to address the problem, that's good and great. It requires degrees and study and history. I mean, to be a proficient ABA provider, it it's it takes a lot of work, and it's why we invest so heavily in that field. Yeah. Under that, right, when you go through all those behavior things that are prone to this neurodiverse world, you're still left with the fact that they're people. And all people are people, and there are any number of, I'll call them personality profiles out there that try to help us to understand people. Not that we're trying to classify people, right? Everybody is unique just like anyone on the spectrum. We're all our own unique person, but within that framework, there are tools that help us understand each other and connect with each other. Color code is something that I came across early in my marriage that categorizes those styles by color. And it did it in a way that helped me in my personal relationship, it helped me with people, it helped me in my professional dynamic, it has helped me with my kids. Dan was a proficient trainer in the color code dynamic, and so I'm hoping today we bring a little bit of color to your lives and helping to explain not just how to understand behavior, but how to understand people and maybe even yourself.

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Yes. I think you need to keep your expectations low. We're we're in trouble. Come on, I just did that whole building. The whole thing. Look at that tease.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yes, and all the way from Salt Lake City. Thank you so much for joining us here in the desert in our brand new studio, Dan. Thank you for being part of the show.

SPEAKER_03 4:49

Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so it's fascinating. Life is about relationships, but color code is why we do what we do. And the problem is we don't know why we do what we do most times. If you think about the breakdown of relationships, the breakdown of family communication, we don't know how to play in the sandbox effectively well. And the problem is that we live in a world where we look at behaviors, but we don't look at the driving motive behind the the why, right? The driving motive behind it. So the world would say to us that you are born perfect and the world breaks you, or you are born broken and the world fixes you. Where color code is different is if you ask any mother who's had multiple children, usually they'll say that in the womb there was a different energy, a different feeling, a different, you know, a different vibe. And uh the the idea of motive is that you are born with an intact drive and motive from conception. And that you bring with that very distinct strengths, limitations, um and uh innate needs that um other other behavioral-based analysis they just don't approach.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Trevor Burrus So it's the idea you came as you were, we learned certain things, but you were who you are when you got here. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Yep. You are you have an intact personality. And and that's the reason why when you have four kids, it's kind of you know God's humor when you're one personality and you have the exact opposite child, right? You know, you're you're a red, you're a driver, you want to move, you want to go accomplish, and you have a white child that you can't motivate to do, you know, go take over the world, and it's frustrating.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Yes, and I I've got I've got four boys and they're all very close together and they couldn't be further apart. Yep, yep. You know, but they they get along, but they were all parented the same way, they were all in the same environment, they all went to the same schools, they all did the same activities, and they are so different. So, yeah, you can't you can't deny there is an element there that is just innately them.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Well, and let's kind of back up. So, folks, if you guys are if everybody's confused about color codes and personalities, I am right with you. I'm not into this as much as Dan and Nathan, so I'm like sitting in your shoes. So let's let's then hang on.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

That means you come with the responsibility because you need to ask the question that everybody listening is going to ask. And our goal today is you know, we Brad, you built this podcast and called it connection because our goal is to connect, right? Not just connect connect people, but to connect on issues and to connect on multiple levels. And one thing that as a parent of a kid on the spectrum that's been so rewarding participating in this podcast is learning all the ways I can not just support my kid, but support myself. And we're hoping the dialogue today is just one more level to help you connect with your kids, to connect with your spouse, to connect with those around you, to understand them, to be curious about them, and maybe look at behavior through a new colorful lens.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

Nice, nice segue. So, folks, when we do podcasts, I usually have like a list of questions. I do my research and I have it all ready to go. This is the only one that really I'm I'm like leaning on you guys because I don't know this stuff. Right. So I'm gonna be asking from our listeners' point of view. So, first thing, what the heck? Like we kind of color code, yep. Uh, and why do we use red, yellow, and blue and green, and purple? They're different shades. I mean, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Can we can you just you know can what let's start at uh step one. Great. So uh Taylor Hartman created the color code uh back in the 80s. It's been around around for quite a while.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

I think now they call it the people code, but it's same premise.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Same premise, yeah. The the book was modified a bit and updated and whatnot. So if you go on Amazon, you can go out and look for the book. And um there's a test online, that's probably the most effective way to understand what motive, what driving motive that you are. So there's four motives: red, blue, white, yellow. Red is motivated by power or control. Or control. And really what their desire is is to achieve, to lead, and to accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

So it's not bad that you want power, but you're driven by some type of uh leadership. Like it's a good leadership quality.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

And listen, I I'm the red in the room, and so I'm still gonna say it's more like control. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

And it's and it's dual-faceted. It's either some reds can want control over others, or some reds can just want to not be controlled by others. Right. And so it's your own. It is, yeah. And so there's with with all these, there's multiple dimensions, and by no means are there only four types of people in the world, but they are dimensions that help you understand.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

But they're just like starting points. So it's like, okay, I have I have this general, this is my starting point as a red, and then there's different layers to it, just like people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Yep. Yeah. And there's not not every red is exactly the same. There, there's different facets, you have different strengths, you have different limitations. So it's not a one-size-fits-all. A lot of times people get really hung up on the fact of, well, I'm not all that red, right. I I'm I'm a different kind of a spectrum of red, you know, using that word.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So when I tell you Nathan what to do, that's why you fight back so much. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Or I find a way to do it the way that I want to. Yes, absolutely. And this this is listen, and like the PDA world, this is prevalent in the aut- There you go. And it's and it's not necessarily about defiance, as much as it is allowing flexibility for them to choose the path that would be better for them. And if all you knew was somebody was a red versus a white, you'd have some deference and understanding. They're not fighting me, they're fighting for their own.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Autonomy, that's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Well, and see the control that's an interesting conversation, is because reds control by logic, blues control usually by emotion or manipulation. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Morality. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Morality. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Okay. Well, let's go. Let's do a broad overview and then we can do some dives, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr. The white whites don't want to be controlled at all, so they will avoid in any aspect to be controlled, and yellows, they don't want you to take away the freedom. So there's an engagement of control and a lack of control in each of those different personalities.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: And can let's start at the 30,000-foot level, Dan. So the the question that color code asks isn't what do you do? It's why are you doing it? And it does it through this lens of motive, right? Your core why. And that that for me was why the color code stood out so much, because some of the other profiles seem to look at behavior, oh, you you're outgoing and therefore you are this type. But what the color code aims to answer is all four of the colors might have the same behavior, but they're exhibiting it for four reasons. So the primary core motives, red is power control. Right.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

So blue is the other way to say that would be moving from A to B, accomplishing it.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Right. Like I finishing a task is huge for me.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Yeah. Blue is intimacy. Uh that does not mean sexual intimacy. Intimacy is connection, legitimate connection, and um uh that morality aspect of things. White is peace, and this is where maintaining harmony and and avoiding conflict in most most cases. Yellow, uh they're motivated by fun. They want to experience joy and um enjoy life. So the each one of these, this is the driving motive behind each one of these. So going to kind of explaining the behavior. Every one of these people, every one of these different colors are going to exhibit a behavior, so the behavior of anger, right? A red, you are getting in between them accomplishing their A to B. I'm trying to get something done.

unknown 12:39

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 12:39

And you're in the middle of it, I'm going to get angry. A blue, because it's all about relationships, it's all about legitimate connection. You just mess with my kid. I'm going to go mama bear on you and I'm going to destroy you. So anger because of the relationship, right? Whites, they don't want their peace taken away. And what's interesting with the white, they are the kindest people you'll ever meet, but they stuff. And they stuff. And they stuff. And they just put up with it. And then all of a sudden, one day they hit their cap and they just lose it uncharacteristically. And and again, uh anger, right? And then yellows, if you take away their freedom, their fun, they're going to get angry. They're going to get frustrated and they're going to again.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

You take away my fun, I'm like, you're just dumb. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:29

Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

I I love to look at it like going on a trip. And I just I like these examples because it helps to relate and kind of get you a bit of a connection, like going on a trip for me. Red, when you say A to B, I want to plan the trip and I want to I want to know how to get to where we are going. And I want the trip to be successful, however I view that, right? So that's me controlling the outcome of it and the aspects of it. The blue doesn't care about B, it's everything in between. There's so many opportunities for connection along the way, but that can interfere with the red getting there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Well, and if your kids if your kids are getting back biting at each other and the that's that tears down that whole vacation.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, the white might want to go on. So the red's going because it's the thing to do, the blue because there's people and experiences. The whites wants to go on a trip to maybe escape what's here. So there's we're just avoiding and getting away. The yellow, just because it's fun. We don't care where we go. We're going somewhere that's fun. I mean, and they just find that. So those core motives are what's going to drive the colors and just set a framework for the dialogue we're about to have. And I know that's super high-level superficial, it sounds like, but the more we dive in, you're going to find some relational aspects that might describe some of the conflict or answer some questions about why it's hard to mesh with some people. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Well, and the thing that's difficult about this is that you if we don't know ourselves and what drives us, and then we have kids that we don't know what drives them, and then we have the whole other framework of autism on top of that, that gets really muddy because it's a it's a it's a conflict of motives. You start fighting each other, and it's all it's all this control piece, right? Because you want a different intention, but that's not what's, you know, that's not what the kid wants. So, you know, every every one of these motives, they have uh strengths and limitations. You know, we we live in a world sometimes where we don't want to look at our limitations. Strength finders is a great, you know, uh uh, you know, test that they use where it's all about the strengths. We we never, we very rarely do we say, hmm, it was that strength that really caused that problem. Right? This is never in that scenario. So it's always a limitation. So it's always a good look at the whole framework of strengths and limitations. With reds, they're confident, they're decisive, they're leadership, uh, courageous, very goal-oriented, very problem solver. Nate, we've talked about that with your sledgehammer.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Right. The sledgehammer is not what I use for solutions.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

But it's what AI said, I should say.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

And listen, I'm I'm uh I'm a I'm not that aggressive of a red. I I my secondary would be a white, so I'm kind of a peaceful solutions red, but still driven by accomplishment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: But you can see there's a lot of red and kind of natural leaders, like CEOs, um, you know, presidents, governors, people that like to be in the limelight, which is interesting about Nathan, is yes, he likes to lead, he's very goal-driven working with you, but he doesn't like the attention. You know, if you want to stress him out, just put him on a billboard and say, No, not my code. Here I am, right? But um but which is interesting. So like so you have similar strengths, but then you would also think that other reds would want the the attention.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Um but that's where the that's where that spectrum comes in, right? Uh what's interesting, we haven't until um Trump, we we didn't ever actually get a have a um a president that was not uh uh a blue or a red ever since uh Nixon. We have white personality and yellow personality since then. The scenario is with leadership and all those pieces, some leaders want the accolades, but what's interesting, the quiet leaders don't. So there's uh there's a spectrum, even within the red, we automatically j jump to this idea that all reds are forceful, they gotta get out there, they're all the leaders, they take over. We live in a world where most men are supposed to be red and most women are supposed to be blue. But what happens when you have a yellow mother who can't keep her house clean, but she thinks this expectation, she's supposed to be the perfect mother, the the homemaker, the cook, and all that stuff. And she puts this really uncharacteristic um weight on themselves that's painful to try to be something that they're not naturally. It causes them a lot of conflict, and yet they're the fun mom. Yeah. Oh, they are the best fun mom. They're the best soccer moms. They're the best, they they're they're they have so much fun, they bring so much light, they're having the dance party, the house is a mess, and that's fine. But the problem is we live in a world where I'm supposed to be one way, you're supposed to be another way, and when we're not, that's limiting. It causes conflict emotionally too, because you're trying to force uh uh this round peg, you know, round it's just painful for a person to not understand why they do what they do and be okay with it.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Yeah, and that comparison, you know, builds up anxiety, builds up more depression, and you're just like, hey, I'm just being what I am very comfortable, and I'm really good at it, and people enjoy what I'm really good at.

SPEAKER_00 18:33

Yep. Yeah. And because that driving motor for red is you know power of control, there's a lot of accountability. Right. So for a red, uh being respected is on the same level as being loved. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

I would say it's even more.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Very likely. In fact, it's interpreted as it disrespect is a sign of I don't love or appreciate. Um and going into that, you know, failure is really hard because we take accountability for what we're involved in. So failure on some level is a personal failure, which is why Reds are so driven to fix and to make those decisive decisions. It's an accountability aspect. And that's why that's why I do the nuance of it's almost more control versus power. It's uh we we want to control what's happening because we at the same time are controlling ourselves. So we do that through our our environment and our surroundings. So that's that's kind of an insight into a little bit of the reds.

unknown 19:28

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

Well, and there's that's interesting a church and state scenario, meaning when you have the red who is all living in logic, and you have a blue that's all living in emotion, you don't speak the same language. It's like j it's like French and and and Spanish.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

Aaron Powell So let's go there because my wife is blue. And so this was something this is what drew me first to and and to begin with is wanting to understand that dynamic better. Let's go into the blue profile. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 19:54

So blue's uh intimacy, it's it's legitimate connection, it's relationships, it's meaningful life, it's all that purpose. Most compassionate, most loyal, loyal to a fault, right? Uh very trustworthy, um deeply caring. But the with that, the some of the limitations that come with it is that they can be oversensitive and perfectionistic and unrealistic expectations. And they put um those expectations on themselves and others. And it it can really be hard um balancing out those expectations. But uh the compassion that they bring in the loyalty, my gosh, well the the heart Walt Disney was a blue. Look at the creativity, look at the attention to detail, look at look at the experience that he wanted to create for families. A perfect example of a blue, right? And the the the amount of how much power and how much ability that that blue personality has. But when you when you take those two opposing forces, logic as a red, and you you take blue as a motion, it's sometimes hard to get on the same page because you're speaking completely different languages, right? It is not as uh it's not it's not it's not easy to always communicate that way.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Yeah. Well, and you earlier you mentioned like, hey, in our society, we want men to be red, women to be blue. But if you look at the strengths of blues, like think about like loyalty. Like most guys are very, very loyal. Like you always think about like, hey, you gotta do this for the team, or hey, we're gonna, you know, we we gotta defend the country, even though even uh even though we might not agree with it, we'll still do it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

And therein comes the why. So it's not the loyalty is not what makes it blue or red. It's the why are they loyal. So, Dan, why would a red be loyal versus why a blue is loyal?

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Aaron Ross Powell Because they're trying to accomplish they're trying to accomplish something and create something. With the blue, um, great example is Abraham Lincoln. He knew at the beginning of the war he was going to die no matter what what the outcome was. But he was going to fight for what was morally right. So it's the or the people or the the moral the morality of of what's right. Interesting. Right. So they're interesting.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

And that that's why the color code was so, I guess, engulfing when I I I was first exposed to it, because you're right, any color can be loyal. It's the why and the core mode of underlying it. They're loyal for different reasons. They act the way they do for a different reason. And so if we just did surface level behavior, it doesn't tell you enough to understand the person behind the behavior.

SPEAKER_03 22:31

So if we look at that red-blue relationship, you know, a red is looking as what how can I accomplish this? And the blue is looking at, you know, how can I love and be loved? Think about when you have to do layoffs in a company. If you have a red CEO and a blue secretary, that is completely contrary. Or they have, you know, different different personalities where you have the HR director who is all about the relationships and then you have the CEO that has to make the hard the hard call because they have to serve the business has to survive. You have very different motives and that's going to be an absolute gateway to conflict, right? Now think about this with kids in a home. If you if you have a power struggle between a parent child let's say that you're a blue a blue parent and you're a red you have a red autistic child. This is quite the power struggle because all you all you want as as a husband or father or you know mother is to connect with this kid. You want to love on that kid and they want you want them to feel that deep connection. He doesn't speak that or she doesn't speak that language right they just don't communicate that way. So you have this logic and emotional battle and then you throw the autism on top of that it's even more complicated because that communication pathway is even more difficult, right? So again with that power struggle the the red child just wants autonomy. They can't go out necessarily and be a leader but want to be a leader. They want they don't want to be dictated to even in that aspect they know better than you know I I still remember in third grade I had this a good friend of mine and he's like I could teach us so much better than she could. And it was you know this cocky little kid it's what innately was in him and that's what his belief was and honestly he probably could have pulled it off.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

He he probably could have done so well well there's also some other colors too. So now we we we've kind of again on on a surface level we understand the red the blue it's not going to be white yeah whites are the kindest people that you will ever meet.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

They are the most accepting and loving these are people who want harmony they want peace they do not con hel like conflict. When my mom and I used to have arguments my dad would would immediately slink away and it's like where'd dad go he didn't want any of that conflict he didn't want to be across any kind of a a bow. They are calm um they're not very expressive they have a lot of times they have the same look on their face very stoic um they are the best listeners because they all literally just sit and listen okay um they are extremely flexible and they can make any situation be fine. I I always love one of the stories that they talk about going to a hotel. The red they you get to the hotel there's not a um the reservation is not there. The red is like get me your manager I this is going to be fixed now. The blue is oh I should have checked for the fifth time. It was my fault. The white is I'm going to go on the couch I'm just going to take this and if you get a room that'd be great but I'm just going to sleep here on the couch. I'm just going to keep that flexibility. Yellows they don't get a room but they get the date with the bell hop. It's just you know they just they go have some fun that way. But whites are very very flexible. The one thing about it they avoid conflict and they avoid it a a lot you know like kind of like the plague. They can get um very passive. If you hear a white um clam up you know that they are now not going to engage at all if they stop talking.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Defense mechanism kind of like the turtle in the shell I almost think of it as the conflict avoidance it's the path of least resistance. Yeah. Right. So that's it's at a lot of the decisions, the framework the the choices are which way is the least pain-inducing.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Absolutely. And what's fun about it is there they're also got this quirkiness to them Einstein was a white brilliant mind, right? But he was quirky. There was just quirky aspects to it. Yoda he's a white right um Jimmy Carter he's a white best diplomat but it's because he could hear both sides. He could hear so both sides of the conflict and he could figure out how to make peace. And this is what they're all about and amazing some of the best CEOs I've ever interacted with are white personalities.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Our world we're like oh they got to be red this is the calm in the storm and when the white talks everybody listens because it's deeply insightful but they're waiting to for for the dialogue to calm down to like I'm going to hurry and throw this big hammer down. And they just have this beautiful quiet dignity.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Well with about that you you brought up you kept saying this and I kept thinking about it conflict. So whites avoid conflict is it the fact that they're just trying to understand the argument so much or are they trying to like you you bring out Jimmy Carter guy that he really did avoid a lot of conflict but is he just trying to understand both sides or is he like if your dad like hey he leaves is it because he's not ready to engage it yet? Is it like I'm just kind of curious on that like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 27:53

We should say it more proactively conflict avoid when it sounds negative their their driving motive is peace. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

And sometimes you get peace through conflict. So you can have a more extroverted white that's proactive about having peace. But the the drive either way is if there's conflict, if there's discord, their goal is how do I not have that? Predominantly it tends to be avoidance but sometimes it is resolution. So they make great mediators because they're not so much emotionally invested, they're very logically invested.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

And the thing like I said my dad is a white and he's the greatest human being that I have in my life apart from my wife and my kids and it's because he accepts me exactly how I come packaged. Doesn't matter what I do bad or bad or good he's just very accepting and very very kind that way. Just just a very strong I personally believe that whites are actually one of the strongest personalities of the color code because they will take you down with them.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

They'll just do it silently well and that's and that's what I like about the color code it's not like okay all CEOs are red all uh you know I don't know whatever secretaries are blue. It's not like that at all. It's like hey you are who you are but you have these different motives of of why you do what you do and to understand that makes you a better person especially working with other people too well and see different jobs do have predominant kind of colors.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

There's a lot of blue in education my developers I I I run a development team and my developers a lot of them are white personalities. So I literally have to give them space to be able to like give an opinion because sometimes they don't want to give it because they don't want to get hit. They know me they have a good trust with me I'm not going to smack them down at all. So they know that they can speak openly but if they're in an environment where it gets hit they're not going to say a word. They're going to keep their mouth shut so yeah the the scenario is we live in a world where people have to be exactly the same and that is a very debilitating and a very narrow mindset. Every leader, every president male, female all four colors and that's that's that's really embracing who you are. So going to the yellows yellow is about fun. Every yellow defines fun differently so there's not a one size fits all. They want joy they want to they they just want to have whatever they call you know fun. Optimistic and so I'm going to use my my my my wife she is 97% yellow she is a 97% she is a Japanese bullet train at Christmas time at Disneyland. She is just fun. For many many years uh in our in our church in our congregation she would try to prepare ahead of time and really get things because she thought that was the right way to do it. Crash and burn every time every time she's a yellow when she goes and wings it home run. The kids have fun they enjoy I'm telling you it's just these strengths that she just stopped fighting the process trying to be something that she wasn't.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

Creative, enthusiastic, very social they butterflies. She will bounce from person to person all night long and just social just feeds off of it. It's just so much fun for her and she just gets engaged. Can be a little disorganized. We always joke that we're always you know she's always 15 minutes late I'm always 15 minutes early so we're always 15 minutes late. So and that's just Angie it's just it's just one of those pieces with with that there comes some disorganization there. But think about this in in the family dynamic uh you have a white uh a white parent and a yellow uh child that dynamic just right there with the personalities is so different versus a blue and a white that that's a little bit more kind of a gentle kind of a connection there because there's a kindness on one side and an acceptance but there's also compassion on the other side. That's an easier one but when you get into fireworks of like the blue and and red when you're having a power struggle that gets crazy. Uh when you look at the dynamic of a red and a yellow that's fireworks because you have the leadership but you also have the charismatic the fun the breaking up the the intensity of things. But each one of these combinations changes the family dynamic. Nate you have four boys they're all packaged differently and the thing that's amazing about the family structure in particular and parents and kids is that when you have that family dynamics you have to figure out how to play in the sandbox.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah and it's you know as a dad I can tell you looking at motive when you think in the terms of motivation helps you to know how to engage kids at various levels. Like I I've got one kid that is is a is a yellow right and so if I can make the work fun or I can do play based work he's all in. I have another that just doesn't like work he avoids it like the play it anything that has to do with with right conflict. And so I have to make the experience as least conflicting as I can and that draws them in. I have another that is very principle based like the blue it's just the right thing to do. And so I I have to teach him a little bit of flexibility but so long as he knows this is what should happen he does it. However, when the brothers don't engage the way he does oh my goodness there's conflict because why don't they see this is the right way and you know my wife and I describe it as it's like looking at a house. I'm looking at one side she's looking at the other we can both be in the same room at the same time part of the same conversation in the same environment and come away with two completely different experiences as to what happened, what was said, what was meant. And initially that drove a lot of conflict because it was a who's right and who's wrong dialogue. And the reality is neither one was right or wrong. She was talking to me about the back of the house that I couldn't even see. I was talking about the front that she couldn't see and we finally have got to a point where I'm curious to find out what the back of the house looks like because my picture is incomplete without it and it drives a different appreciation versus a conflicting perspective.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Well and that's freeing isn't it to have a be okay with different perspective. Yeah. It's very freeing.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And that's and we talked about this before about being self-discovery.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

Yeah discover yourself know who you are and and knowing who you are is also just as important as knowing what you're not so then if so Nathan you're a red white white okay you'll be a red white Dan yellow red you're a yellow I'm a happy fat guy until I'm angry okay well awesome me I'm I'm all the above no I don't know I would just I I'm still trying to I think I'm more of a yellow and you think I'm a yellow I think you're yellow blue blue or yellow blue but see this is what this is one thing about this is that your journey of trying to figure out who you are and getting connected with that it's that's that's your own journey. When I took the test I thought I was absolutely 100% red. That was so not true. But it's because I was what I was supposed to be. I was taught my entire life my bachelor's my master's my whole life coming from a farm we're supposed to be red. No that's not me.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Trevor Burrus And to avoid a lot of that if I remember that part of the directions when you take the color code test are to answer these from your earliest memories of childhood. Yep. Right? So we're not we're not masking it with what we've learned to be or how we've learned to behave later. We're looking at those core innate motives and the truth is when you connect with those they're still there and they're still present and it's a lot more fulfilling understanding your strengths limitations than trying to pretend they're what they're not. And you know when I I remember when I first read it I was like oh no one of those things that tries to say there's only four groups of people in the world you know and it's they're trying to pigeonhole that you're limited. You're just this and the truth is it's the opposite it's very freeing because it gives you an insight more into yourself, into other people and it allows you this space to think that my way of thinking is not the only way there actually isn't just a right answer to this situation. And there are more ways to experience the same thing. And that listen that by itself is a concept that if people just understood you can experience something differently and it doesn't make it right or wrong and my way is not the only way it allows room for grace. It takes so much conflict off of the table and it instead replaces it with curiosity. Tell me about your experience I want to understand more what you experienced and why and it will oftentimes sound foreign and that just highlights even more how different we are and why this curiosity this attempted understanding whether it's colors or numbers the aim is to help us to connect not just with ourselves but with other people.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

Well and see the emotional quotient thing if you go into studying emotional quotient it's knowing yourself and regulating between others it's very freeing to know that my one of my limitations is a disorganization. I know it and I can actually make fun of it now. It's just one of those things. I know that that's a part of me that is a struggle and I can approach it and try to solve it. But I don't put it into that personal level of things it's now okay this is just how my brain works right if you look at autism it's how the brain works and we're all on this different kind of self-discovery path so let's just just chat this really quick here yellow yellow parent they want their kid to have joy they want them to have fun right they want creativity they want playfulness and the parents gonna let's make this fun you know let's try something different let's do those kind of pieces well here's the problem sometimes life cannot be all fun it can't always be that way right so maybe the parent instead of asking how do I make this fun it's like how do I especially for an autistic kid is like how do I make this predictable how do I how do I get these routines that this is actually a great gift. I'm not a routine person as yellow but my autistic child needs a routine he need they need that to hold on to right it's it's it's helpful. One of the things you know your kid hates bedtime the yellow response is like well okay let's play another game it's like no bedtime is the same every night we have to have some predictability we need some a little bit more structure so it goes against your natural inclination as a yellow parent right a yellow kid wants to experience joy whatever that joy is is it the video game whatever they're gravitate to whatever that dopamine hit what whatever that fun thing but they're imaginative they want to be able to be playful they they love those that fascination they the the you know the they want movement they want to make people laugh all those aspects right they want that joy and that creativity what they don't need is more rigid negativity so if they if we're putting always a thumb on a yellow kid and and always just forcing it they're gonna shut down and it's they're gonna have more outbursts right more struggles because you're trying to control too much right so I think this is one of those things where understanding what you do what your child is and trying to figure out how to communicate together their needs and their wants based off of what that you know versus what yours are what you're going to try to force that's that's a hard that's a it's a long row that's to say that it's a long row path.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

And folks I know you're uh this is audio only you're not seeing what we have here on the table then you you put together these awesome notes and uh maybe hopefully we can throw this up on our podcast to share with others but you say something here with the yellow that I thought was interesting says uh that they teach you know the biggest gift you can give a yellow is teach that routines are not the enemy they create freedom for adventure yes yes that's a that's a good in the framing of it in the framing of it right and you make it fun you said that you make you make the you make the routine function they could fun can be found in many many different ways now it has to be a legitimate fun.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

Of course but the routine we crave as human beings we do crave routine kids especially they want a routine even though they would never say that right it's very effective for them to know and have that predictability right well and then here's another one making you know laughter um you know making making you know laughter is a good medicine yeah so that that you can we talked about that a few weeks ago with our last you know PDA how we bring humor into regulating right so that's and it another way with that is a little distraction too right it's like we're gonna make light of this and it's going to diffuse the situation. Right?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah yeah and and how even how we approach it, you know I'm uh one of the things that took a long time and was the source of a lot of conflict just in interpersonal relationships for me is you know a blue a blue at their core because it's intimacy and connection they want to be understood. Because if they feel someone understands you then that connection is there. Reds don't necessarily want to be understood. Reds want you to understand.

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Right? So maybe I didn't quite explain myself. Let me try again and back it up with more so there's a nuance there but being understood versus wanting you to understand whites want to understand.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

So they're looking at processing. I want to take it all in. So they're sitting in the corner of the room looking and studying I want to understand what's around but that's not about connection or even control. That's just themselves. And then yellows Dan I have to ask because I have such little yellow in terms of understanding you're not looking to be understood. You don't want them to understand you're not trying to understand you just be I'm just I'm really serious you just be there's just no ramp or reason. Yellows are almost the most free flowing I I would almost think I'm thinking how can I make this more fun?

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Yeah I'm now I'm getting bored.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Like you should jazz this up a little bit and the red I'm like I don't understand what what are we doing now? I'd say of all the colors yellows are the most present. Yeah right they live in the moment blues tend to live in the in the past. Especially if there's hurt. Yep reds t tend to look to the future the whites are present through it all like they they really are the analytics they're they're the historians on the side making sense of the whole timeline. Yeah and then yellows yellows are the best at being present to gift. And it's why I joke all the time I surround myself with yellow personalities because it's a piece I see missing within myself. And you know folks as you're listening again the goal of this is not to pigeonhole it's to show and and really just around this table we can we've talked about how different even we are just sitting here and if we didn't know that about each other then I'd go about my workday expecting you guys to work like me and becoming resentful if maybe you didn't. And Brad you might be expecting a certain level of just moral compass buy-in and camaraderie and loyalty. And if it wasn't there, you might build resentment and and Dan you'd be going, this is so serious where's the fun involved and if it's not there, I'm not fulfilled and I'm going to look for something else. And the undertone of not knowing that the the capital the human cost is we're not filling each other's cups. We're not being there in a way that matters for them. So The goal of all of it is just understanding. It's connecting.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Trevor Burrus Well, and what's interesting is I've built teams over so many teams over the years. My best teams are having a red, blue, white, and yellow. Because all four bring different perspectives and they are all valid. And I'm telling you, some of the the the battles you have, because there, you know, you have four distinct different personalities. But in the end, if we align and if we're all on the same page, it's magic. It is golden because you bring all that strength and all that perspective together. It's really powerful. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Well, it also seems like it works for whatever you're trying to produce in any kind of business. If you get all four different perspectives, then your consumer most likely has those type of perspectives too.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Aaron Powell Well, and in that same light when you're looking at consumers, you know, I've I've built products uh all my my entire career. I know who my audience is, and now I know what their strengths, limitations, and what their needs and wants are. That's huge. Because if I can fill a need or fill a want, we're in. That makes sense. If you have a product that hits all four personalities, you have gold because you're meeting the needs or want of a lot much larger audience.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Aaron Powell Well, it just sounds like, you know, in a way you're kind of hacking into that emotional mindset and able to connect with like your children or your coworkers in a way that you know you'd never have been before. So that's quite interesting.

SPEAKER_03 45:28

Well, and with red personalities, I'm gonna throw Nate on the bus here. He has to be careful that he doesn't use it to puppet mastery. There's a lot of blues that masquerade excuse me, a lot of reds that masquerade as a blue to get their way from A to B. Oh, so you can mask different ways, right? So I'm gonna I have to watch out now. No.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Well, and that's that goes into there's the healthy side of the color, the unhealthy, and but again, and that that's hard, right? It's hard to read and go, this is the tendency. And I could see how that would be an easy pathway to use. And so it listen, it's there are tools that help to make us the best version of ourselves. Um, they're tools to help us to be more accepting of the best version of somebody else, even when it doesn't look like ourselves. And I think the reason I was excited to at least bring this topic was that as parents, uh what we want, we want them to be successful. Okay. We want, we want to drive meaningful connections with kids. We want to be able to show up in a way that's wholehearted, that's understanding. And this is just another dynamic. It's a way, you know, to go at a theme, Brad, that we've had, it seems like the last couple episodes in our podcast, it's just another way to be curious. Right? They're just perspectives to get us to ask, who are you? Who am I? How do we fit? And how can we be more synergistic? How can we build a more meaningful and purpose-driven relationship?

SPEAKER_03 46:48

What can I say to the parents? Kids do not need a perfect parent. They don't need a perfect parent. What they need is a parent who's willing to understand them and what their needs are. And you know, this is beyond behavior, this is beyond all those pieces. It's it's a scenario that when you understand why you do what you do, and you understand what drives your kids and why they do what they you do, they do, there's such a benefit of uh communication improves, you see the motives, you see kids' manipulation too, you see through the facade, right? Of like, okay, they're trying to get to the why. Why are they doing this here? What's the why behind it? Not the behavior. Because the behavior is going to be, you know, ebbs and flows. It's the why. And if you can address the why, you diffuse almost every situation. It's it's very empowering. But again, parents don't need to be perfect. They just need they just need understanding of themselves and and and that drive, that motive.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

So then what do we do from here? So is there any purples? I mean, is there any like uh you know multicolored? You know, I it's you kind of you you said 97%, you know, whatever. Like is it's not a true 50-50.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

No, so so if you're above 65 percent of one color, they call you a purist. And if you're like 35 and 35, too, that's where you have two more kind of driving cores. Like I I'm 40 percent yellow and like 30 percent red. So that's how that breaks down for me. You're gonna take the test and it's gonna give you a kind of a breakdown. It's gonna give you your percentages, but really what you're gonna want to look at is your strength and your limitations. And you're gonna want to start embracing the limitations that are causing you to have issues. As soon as you see that, you're like, oh, that's why me and my husband or me and my child are having conflict. Because this is their limitation and this is my limitation. It's just emotional quotient and understanding why you do what you do. So it that's the next step is just start discovering discovering who you are and why you do what you do.

SPEAKER_01 49:03

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: No, it's the and and the tests that you're talking about, I assume it's online. Color code.com. Color code.com. I I don't know if there's a cost to it.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Yeah, so you you can take the test for free, or you can actually upgrade um you can upgrade the test. Uh it's usually I think of fifty dollars for the test itself.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

And just so everybody knows, we don't make any money on it. This is all just we just understand ourselves and fetch. Our marketing director just did the test while we were doing this, and it looks like she is a blue. So, Dallin, congratulations, you are now a blue.

SPEAKER_02 49:35

I don't believe it.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Yeah, we'll dive into that that later. That's a true blue response. No.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

And the goal, again, the goal is less about categorization, the goal is about curiosity.

SPEAKER_02 49:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

And if all we did was inspire a reason to be introspective, to ask questions about yourself, to learn more about your kids and your dynamic, then we've done our job because it's when we stop asking questions, it's when we stop wondering that we become isolated. We're an island in ourselves, there is only our way, and that's where conflict thrives. If we're always asking why, if we're always curious about what's happening with the other person, you'll find that most resentment goes away. Because if you see something that's off or they're behaving in a way that you think could be wrong, if you're first curious, you might find that the reason is not something you expected. It might be completely logical from their point of view. And when we have curiosity satisfied first, there's actually very little room for conflict after.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

Agreed. Well, that's that's awesome. You know, this is So D Dan, how would you like to wrap it up? I mean, what what would be kind of the last last thoughts to our parents who are like, okay, this is interesting. I might look more into it. Um what what do you have for our last for our audience?

SPEAKER_03 50:58

You know, I I think that one of the biggest mistakes that that as parents, you know, is assuming that because our your kids have uh autism that they do the same thing, they don't. They they they two kids may have the exact same diagnosis, but the the scenario is they might have a different driving motive. And the conflicts that you're having, the difficulties, the outbursts, other things that way, the struggles that they might be having, it might be at a core of that driving motive. So I uh the what I would invite you to do is to discover yourself, take the test, try to figure out you know what your what your child is, if they can take the test, that's fine. But you're gonna discover and learn um how to diffuse the situations moving forward. So I I would just go on that journey, uh that journey of self-discovery. I it has changed my life. It has changed um my my marriage, it's changed how I interact with my kids. Uh it's been life-changing for me, and it's been one of the most impactful um experiences I've ever had of teaching, but also very freeing to be able to accept me for who I am. And I it's just it's powerful. So just go seek seek discovery.

unknown 52:13

Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Well, we accept you of who you are, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

Do we have a sledgehammer like sound effect? Is that what's that sledgehammer song? The outro are we gonna have? We we don't have the budget for that.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

So, anyway, well, thank you, Dan, for being here. Uh, love to have you back again. Nathan, thank you so much. And if you if you love this show, please hit the subscribe button so you'll never miss a wonderful inspirational conversation just like this. A huge shout out to our amazing team, our wonderful producer, Jesse Palmer, and our marketing director, Daniel Davis, for making this happen. Until next time, let's do some good.