Kerry Magro on Hope, Autism, and Love on the Spectrum

This episode offers the autism journey hope grounded in lived experience, plus practical guidance you can actually use.

Our guest, Kerry Magro, shares his journey from being non-speaking until age two and a half and speaking in full sentences around age seven to becoming a nationally recognized public speaker, author, consultant, and advocate. His story is a powerful reminder that early challenges do not define a child’s future.

Together, we explore how to support autistic kids by focusing on strengths, self-awareness, and self-advocacy rather than fear or limitations. Kerry explains why understanding a diagnosis can be empowering, how sensory supports and clear communication help in everyday life, and why parents should meet their children where they are while still nurturing their goals and interests.

The conversation also goes beyond childhood and into the future many parents worry about: relationships, adulthood, employment, and independence. Kerry shares thoughtful insight on dating, friendship, and the importance of giving autistic teens and adults space to define success on their own terms.

Most of all, this episode reassures parents that their child’s story is still being written and that with support, curiosity, and belief, there is real possibility ahead.

Learn more from our guest at https://kerrymagro.com/

We want to hear from you! Follow us and leave a comment on our Instagram at ThePolarisConnection or reach us at Info@PolarisAcademy.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

No expectation that you again a doctor's office for 15 minutes is necessarily going to define what your job's future is. Because at the end of the day, you know your child best and you can help them pursue their goals and dreams every single day.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hello everyone and welcome to the Flourish Connection, connecting parents of autistic children with industry experts. Each week we navigate the world of autism together, bringing you real conversations from specialists who truly get it. The journey is challenging, but you don't have to walk it alone. So settle in, get cozy, let's connect and do some good. I am your host, Brad Broyles, and I'm here with my love on the spectrum, binge watcher, and uh uh fanatic Nathan Palmer.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Brad, good to be here. You know, if you're new to the show, Brad introduces me different every single time. I never know where it's gonna go. Not every time. I love it. It's and it always ties into our guests. That show, though, if I can just take a seamless plug Love on the Spectrum, it's so good. It's on Netflix. Uh, there's like an Australia version, a US version. Um, it's just good, heartworthy content. And our guest today ties in because I believe was a consultant as well as just an expert in the field. And Brad, I can't wait for you to tell him why.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Well, I was almost going to let you tell them why. But yeah, we today we have a wonderful guest, Kerry Magro, all the way from Vermont and uh New Jersey. I'm sorry, from New Jersey, to bring his wonderful expertise. Kerry, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the Players Connection.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Uh, thanks for having me, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

Yeah, so Kerry, you he uh you are a uh a professional public speaker. Tell us a little bit about your background and and how you got into this love on the spectrum US and um tell us a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah, absolutely. So uh I have a personal passion behind this cause. I was diagnosed with PDD NOS, a form of autism when I was about four years old. And I was actually non-speaking until two and a half and didn't start speaking complete sentences until I was about seven. So dealt with a wide range of communication challenges, sensory challenges growing up. And uh in my career, two of the saving graces had been finding what uh my key interests were and really just sticking to them uh because I loved music and I loved sports. And that led to me getting a degree in sport management. I got really cool opportunities out of college to work uh with CBS Sports and get to work on the Super Bowl, March Madness Tournament. But I decided to change career paths because I realized that a lot of people with in the disability community were really struggling, especially when it came to the transition to adulthood. So I took my love of music and theater to find a full-time career in public speaking, got a master's uh to become one of the first openly autistic uh public speakers in the United States, and then got my doctorate in education so I could teach at the college level about our amazing autism and disability community. And I've been doing that work for the past 15 years, uh, ever since I was 23 and got my certification. I've traveled the globe speaking at over 1,500 events in the past 15 years with schools, companies about the ROI benefits and hiring talented autistic people in the workplace and so many more incredible uh groups, like government organizations, about meeting our kids where they are, especially in emergency situations. It's been uh it's been quite an amazing just uh opportunity and ride. And uh I hope I can do this for many years in the future. And uh that love of theater led to love on the Spectrum US and also just consulting uh with our TV and film projects to bring a realistic portrayal of autism and disability to the screen. So it's a bit been an amazing ride so far.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Now, Brad, I know you probably have some more accolades you're gonna get into, but can I just take a second as a parent? Uh Kerry, you went through that really fast.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Yes, you did.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

And there's one thing I just want to hone in on. Did I hear you write that you were nonverbal until two and a half and were not speaking complete sentences until seven? Yes. And you are now not just a speaker advocate, but a public speaker, right? And a proficient one at that. Okay. So if if we stop the podcast and just mic dropped right there, I I love the message that there's always hope or there's uh there's always reason to hope for a better future. Because so often as parents, we look at these milestones. And one of the tenets of autism are non-typical milestones, right? We're meeting them at different rates or in different ways. And the question that we have struggle with as parents always is who's my child gonna grow up to be? What limitations are they gonna have? And are is what I'm seeing today predictive of what I'm gonna see in the future? And if you just provided me one thing, it is turning expectations on their head because uh that growth trajectory is not something that I think at seven a parent would have said, yeah, this kid is gonna be a public speaker. So thank you for just showing us what can be possible and giving us reason to hopefully expect more.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Well, thank you for that. And I mean, it is such a wide spectrum. Uh, but I I I say this all the time. Uh, you know your child best. You're your child's greatest advocate. Always continue to nurture their strengths and just try to provide reliable resources across the lifespan because there are some people with high support needs who are going to have everyday struggles, but providing them with the best quality of life, whatever that looks like for them, is ultimately the goal that I think we should pursue for everyone in our community. Some people will be like myself, some will also need 24-7 care. But really just meeting our kids where they are and knowing that you know expectation that you again a doctor's office for 15 minutes is necessarily going to define what your child's future is. Because at the end of the day, you know your child best and you can help them pursue their goals and dreams every single day.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah. Well, Carrie, I'm curious. So when you were young, if you can go back to that mindset, nonverbal for um until the age of seven, is that correct? About it? And so and then you you talk about how through therapy, family support, and the love of the theater kind of helped you work yourself out of that. Can you speak more to what really kind of helped you during that process and what what lessons that folks can learn?

SPEAKER_02 6:50

Yeah, so I did a lot of scripting when I was a kid. Uh, so I would mimic everything that I would see in TV and films, even when I wasn't speaking in full sentences yet. So I had this uncanny ability to be able to like memorize everything that I would see on the screen, especially towards like Disney movies and other types of movies when I was growing up. And my parents realized that love, and they were like, all right, let's try to turn this from just watching a popular Disney film into trying to turn that into me actually performing it. Uh, with an individual who had like challenges with like limited pretend play, who still wasn't speaking yet, and was having those other challenges with things like mind-blindness, not understanding other perspectives. My parents got me into a special needs theater camp when I was five, and it made a world of difference. I was performing like uh The Circle of Life from Lion King as like my my my first like time ever being on stage. Uh, and and and and honestly, like for a kid who also had a lot of sensory challenges growing up, even though there was something very uh annoying about loud noises, there was always something soothing about music. So uh, and I did that for almost 13 years, uh, just from five from that five-year-old kid to aging uh out of high school. Uh, and it was just something that I wish more of our schools really implemented. And then in in terms of the consulting work, I just started writing blogs about that on my website, carymagro.com, about the benefits of theater therapy that support people with disabilities. And I got the opportunity to work with a director at Warner Brothers who was working on a film called Joyful Noise with uh Queen Latif and Dolly Parn. One of the characters in this film had autism. He had done a Google search and typed in autism and theater, and my name popped up, and he asked me to consult on the film. And that I ironically enough, as I was just starting off my speaking career, led to a role in the entertainment world uh to bring realistic portrayals of autism and disability to the screen. So that's kind of how it all came about.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So I'm curious. So when you do your consulting work and you're trying to bring autism to the screen, what are some misunderstandings that you try to help the directors, cast members understand about these characters?

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Well, I think the biggest thing is it is such a wide spectrum. I I feel like we still get pigeonholed into the whole autism savant misconception. Uh we we see movies like Rain Man, we see TV shows like The Good Doctor, which just have these people as quirky savants. And that is not necessarily the case for everyone. I see a lot of people who like send me scripts for movies who are just trying to put a person with autism as that savant genius type. And it really does a disservice to the rest of the community. So what I try to do most importantly is to give them not only my first-person perspective of someone who grew up with autism, but also helping them realize the spectrum. And there's no one size fits all when it comes to that community. So over time I've done that with script reviews uh like Joyful Noise, uh, then also being able to give autism education trainings to uh the casting crew of many projects to make sure that they realize uh that autism is such a wide spectrum. So breaking down those barriers and misconceptions to make sure that when our families are watching these TV shows, these films, that they're actually seeing their kids being represented.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

That's really cool. And you know, you're you're right, it is it is a broad spectrum and it's it's grown significantly. You know, um the there's the adage if you've met one kid on the spectrum, you've met one kid on the spectrum. But what the commonality there is that the approach to understanding autism is consistent, and that is curiosity. Right. The the I I you know in our school for kids, um part of the joy is discovering what uh makes each one of our students who they are. And you know, it's they they all have different gifts and limitations, but again, the commonality is there's difference in how they either view the world or experience the world or experience each other. And that's the only consistent thing, is that I have to always approach it with I'm curious about you and I want to discover you. And that that's a process that starts over and over and over again. Um, you know, just as much as Rain Man was, you know, an approach to look at autism. It's funny, I joke that uh Napoleon dynamite, you know, is is another classic form of another form of autism, you know, and it's back then it was just lapstick humor about that kid in high school that nobody understood. And today I watch and I go, okay, well, there's a good portion of our population that was just misunderstood. And so I I as a as a society, I love we're growing. That show Love on the Spectrum touches touches close to my heart because as a parent, I worry, you know, who's my kid going to connect with and and and what's that gonna look like? And I love how good of a job they do in showing uh the breadth of that spectrum, you know, and the levels of connection that can be possible, even with some that are socially distant otherwise. And it's just uh it opens up Pandora's box to the world of showing the diversity that's there and the beauty uh really that lies at the heart of autism. So thank you for your work in that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

And I was gonna add to that, like what makes it so popular that you've that you've done to the show or that you've worked with on the show Love on the Spectrum with US?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

Yeah, so I mean I got the opportunity to uh join it when it really was just kicking off in the US because uh, like you guys mentioned, there was the Australia version. And I had wrote a book about uh autism and dating, and I sent that to the directors of the Australia show when it was still happening, and basically just being like, if I can be a a guide or a resource for you guys, let me know. And ironically, when I sent that email, it was just at the same time they were trying to move the show to the US. Uh and often the times I most of the work I do with young uh adults, they don't want to talk about uh interview processes, they don't want to talk about job training, they want to talk about how they can go about gaining a romantic relationship. So uh getting opportunity to, yeah, it's true. It's like just like any other kid. Um and I realized that um maybe I could be a resource for this show. So and then when we we I started telling them about my consulting work, uh, they asked me if I wanted to jump on board. So being able to provide trainings for the crew behind the scenes, meeting every single cast member where they are, like the Tanners, Abbeys, the Connors of the world. So they can basically have the best dates possible uh for and then also getting the opportunity to edit each episode. Uh, I get to watch the episodes before they actually air to touch base on any topic that seems like a red flag, like anything that w could lead to a misconception, could lead to a possible stigma. So we're making sure that all these individuals who are some of the most incredible individuals in the world, mind you, uh, can have uh the their tr their stories be seen exactly as they are.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

So all right, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna maybe take a tangent, but on this common topic because I'm a dad of a kid on the spectrum, he's a teenager, and you know, as a dad, my my focus, my desire is well, I want him to be a successful human being and independent and out there in the world. And he keeps bringing up how one day he's gonna be married and have a family. And I'm like, these are two different ideas, and there's some anxiety of what to tell him because I don't know, I don't know what that looks like, right? That that was different than my experience. So do you have any uh tips or ideas or how do you navigate that dialogue when there's so much uncertainty? And, you know, yes, that's something that they want to talk about. I want to talk about just getting you independent, but how do you navigate the dialogue of I don't even know what to tell them because that dating profile was not mine? Like, how do you be supportive? How do you give hope? How do you build on like that's a that's a conversation, frankly, I don't think we've had on the podcast. And I know there are parents that are in these shoes going, how do I navigate that space in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_02 16:09

Well, it's interesting you bring that up because I was just having uh a conversation with a colleague about this the other day. Love looks different for everybody, uh, especially when we talk about relationships. And for example, like individuals on the show like Tanner, Tanner realized right away that he needed to take a break from dating. And maybe necessarily dating isn't something that he wants to do. He wants to build meaningful connections, which is friendships. Uh, understanding that the end goal is not necessarily finding that romantic partner. Maybe the end goal is finding love in your work, like Temple Grandin is a great example, who's an incredible autistic advocate whose love of her life is her career and the work that she's doing. So being able to help people realize, especially in our community, that it's not necessarily relationships having to be the end game. You can find the love of your life, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a person, it can be a passion that you have. And that's okay. Because I feel like it it especially as we continue to evolve as as a society, especially in the US, we live in one of the most diverse types in our history. We realize that relationships aren't necessarily the end goal for everyone. And them being happy and loving their life, whatever that looks like to them, is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Gotcha. Well, you know, that that that flips it to really just considering them versus considering the fear of the unknown. And you know, there are listen, as as a parent, I think there's fear with raising kids anyways. You know, Brad, you've got six kids. Right? I mean, I I'm sure you don't feel confident all the time with everything that you do.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Well, mostly, but uh I don't show it.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

You masked like the best of them, right? Um, but I I what what I appreciate with the idea is you said something, uh Kerry. You said you know they they want to talk about relationships just like anybody, like that it's a normal thing. And that part's actually kind of reassuring that that's normal. And I think sometimes we shy away from the normal because we don't know how to navigate the normal, but they really are just like anybody else. And we actually are kind of are more like them than we care to admit. And I I don't mean to say it like us and them, because it's all we're all together. But we mask, right? We have our ticks, we have our anxieties, they express sometimes and experience it in a different fashion. Um, and that drives a lot of fear of the unknown. But uh if hearing your background and seeing shows like Love on the Spectrum, it uh takes some of that fear and switches it to hope. And so I think I still am not gonna know how to navigate that dialogue with my boy, but uh if I can bring hope to the conversation, maybe that's enough.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Right. Yeah. Well, and I would and while you're working on these uh shows as a consultant, like what are some key elements that you do to ensure like the autistic story is being told auth you know, authentically uh rather than through like any kind of stereotypes? And then how do you you know we know that when you change environments with some autistic children or or adults, like that does change their behavior of what they do. So what do you do in a way to kind of like help them self-regulate and be authentic when you're uh like when you're on production or on set, but when you're in a different unnor unnormal environment?

SPEAKER_02 19:44

Sure. Yeah. So I mean, one of the biggest things that I always recommend for every show I work on, whether it's something that's fictional or or non-fictional, because love everything you see on Love on the Spectrum US is all of them being real. It's their real life stories happening in real time. Uh, is providing sensory checklists. I believe that feedback is so crucially important. So when I'm I'm working with a crew or I'm doing an autism training before production starts, one of the things I'm offering them is actually talking about the day by day of what this will look like on set, considering things like a one-to-five scale, where individuals with who might have hypersensitivity, you might gauge certain areas of an environment which are like high, high sensory, so being like that five, and then low sensory being that one. So every single person can feel a little bit more comfortable when they're on set, especially if they have narodivergent talent, those autistic actors uh who might be on set as well. So again, feedback is so, so important and crucial for all these things. Um, we have a huge community of people in the entertainment world who now have at least one uh disability or neurodiverse consultant behind the scenes because they realize that it doesn't only make sense for those neurodiverse actors, a lot of the considerations that I threw out there, like a sensory checklist, make a lot of sense for everyone on set. Uh, quiet rooms, being able to also provide uh written instructions versus verbal feedback. So, and this is the same stuff that I talk to companies about, being able to provide written feedback versus something verbally that can go over someone's head. All these little considerations to make sure that these projects are bringing out the best in not only their actors and cast, but also helping the crew understand more about our autism and disability community. So in the future, like love on the spectrum, when they They do get renewed for a new season. People are a little bit more educated on the daily challenges that someone with autism or disability has to face.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Well, and that's kind of what I like what you're doing. You know, when you're running a set, when you're producing a movie, in a way you're running a business. So these directors, um, you know, everybody behind the scene has to adapt to some of the characters or the people on set. So I like how you're bringing that in a real-world company like setting. So, how can you deep dive a little bit more into that? Like, so if I run a business and I want to work with the autistic community, how is it a benefit to the company rather than, hey, I have, you know, I feel like I need to make these special accommodations, but in return, it actually produces a better work environment for everybody?

SPEAKER_02 22:52

Well, I I I sound like a broken record every single time I go into a company talking about this. And uh I was just talking to a company before he jumped on uh about this, uh, because October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. It's not what a company can do for an autistic employee, it's what an autistic employee can do for that company. And changing that narrative is so crucially important because there have actually been studies done by the Department of Labor that indicate that autistic people are more likely to stay at a job longer, they're more likely to take less time off from work, and the majority of reasonable accommodations for autistic adults cost absolutely nothing. And when they do, it's typically just an onboarding fee of $500. So whenever I'm going into a workplace to give a lunch and learn or a professional development session for the company, I'm trying to encourage them to understand that those with autism and disabilities make up the most untapped talent pool for our companies to consider and being able to open their mindset, uh, especially in a world where sometimes those who are different are not necessarily celebrated for their differences. I think it's really important that we're continuing that education.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Yeah, you're changing the dialogue to look at the value, not look at the liability, look at the opportunity, not the risk or the struggle. And that that's the power of perspective is real, right? It's the same person, it's the same dynamic, but it completely shifts where we look to extract. And if you want to find value, it's it's there. I'm curious, Carrie, you know, we we've been talking about the work you do and the perspective you bring. Um if there's an onion, you know, with layers I could build back a little bit, it would be to take a peek in the mind of a neurodivergent brain during those teenage years. So your experience growing up, you know, what was that like? Were there feelings of like how aware were you of those differences from those around you? Were you know, you mentioned you were in like a special needs theater, but you know, did you see it that way? Were that you were part of this distinct program versus just a program? Like those supports of that process, how did that impact you? How did you navigate that? I mean, I I maybe just asked like 10 questions, I should stop because I'm so curious about that. That that it's hard enough for a typical developing teenager. Like, how was that process for you?

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Yeah, and this is a great question because honestly, even though I was diagnosed at four, my parents didn't tell me until I was 11 and a half. And I always thought I was kind of like an alien uh because so many other people in my community also knew that I was on the spectrum, but I had no idea. Um, I was in a social skills class and we were playing uh disability celebrity bingo. And we were learning like my favorite sport is basketball. So we were learning like people like Michael Jordan at ADHD. Uh and at the end of the class, the teacher says, all these amazing talented individuals are special just like you. So after school that day, I told my parents, oh well, so you you told me I'm uh the the teacher just told me today I'm special. So why am I special? And they told me for the first time I had autism. And honestly, it was so life-changing because I I finally understood why I was a kid who was always lining up his Legos based on height order and in the same uh in the category Roy G Biv and that exactly red, orange, like the entire color uh organization. And everything became full circle back who I was. It started saming on my IP meetings, and everything became just so much easier, especially during a time when I was just turning 12 and I was going through a wide range of challenging behaviors. Uh, puberty was something that I was not ready for by any means of the conversation, especially with someone with sensory challenges. But that's why I always encourage our families to know. Whether I'm speaking at high school as part of a student assembly or staff deployment, or I'm speaking to grammar school students, being able to understand the importance of understanding who you are, having self-awareness about what makes you special and what sometimes challenges you have, and self-advocating for yourself are really crucial to your ultimate success one day.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

Gotcha. It's funny, as a parent, I wonder, I I always wonder how aware is my child. It sounds like you always knew there were distinctions, but having something to benchmark that against, right? Made sense out of what was otherwise just confusing. Yeah, okay. Got it. Well, that that I love the power of awareness because you wonder sometimes as a parent, is that is that putting my child at more to disadvantage by explaining this, or is it empowering? And it sounds like for you, it kind of plugged those holes and connected the gaps and allowed you to be more of a whole person.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah, absolutely. And there have been studies that have been done over time via groups like the Interactive Autism Network, the Organization for Autism Research that indicated that when a kid learns about their diagnosis at an earlier age, they're more likely to deal with less anxious thoughts, less challenges with mental health-related challenges as well, because they start to build a better sense of who they are as individuals in this world. And what a lot of conversations, especially the ones I do in schools and companies, is really introducing them to the idea of integrating neurodiversity as part of their curriculum, where we're not just necessarily talking about disability and talking about limitations, but we're also adding in neurodiversity, the strengths that some individuals have. And I'm not saying that every single individual is going to have less support needs and have those same strengths. But what I am saying is being able to integrate that gives people a better sense that when they do consider their disability a crutch sometimes, they also do realize there are some people who are doing some really amazing and incredible things in this world too. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

And that's a message I wish we could get out more. You know, the my my one beef with the IEP, and and we kind of changed what it is in our school, is that it is a document focused on the deficiencies. And I'm a believer that the more you focus on something, the bigger it gets. And if we only look at the problems or the challenges of autism, then we will forever see it as a problem and a challenge. But just like we make accommodations for a deficiency, you can make accommodations for strengths. You can intentionally support pathways of proficiencies. And that dialogue is one I think that we miss. Um and again, what we focus on grows. So if we instead look at what capacity is there, what strengths, those that you just pointed out, that they actually could be fantastic additions to the workforce if that's now the focus and we're building the pathway for those benefits. Now autism is an opportunity. Um it's something that has as much to contribute to the social dialogue as anything else. And don't we all have our deficiencies, neurodiverse or not? We all bring back it to the table, right? We all need to be accommodated, but we do what we normal people do. How do I build myself up? And if we keep that focused in the autism world, the neurodiverse world at large, we will find so much more strength and potential than we do problems.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Well, and I and even with the word diagnosis, like I hate that word. You know, with you, Carrie, you said something very powerful. It's like once you I know we use the word diagnosis. I I understand the clinical need for that. But to you, it was like clarification of who I am. It was a self-discovery process. Like, oh, it was actually very empowering. It was like, in a way, you're superpower. Now I understand myself better. And I almost wish we could just call it more of like a self-discovery, you know, rather than, hey, here's an issue with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

I mean, look, I look how much uh money and attention there are on like all the personality profiles. And I think that's an area we're actually going to go into on another show. But like people are interested in learning about themselves, but we typically only have it as a lens of this these neurotypical profiles. And I don't see neurodiversity or autism as anything other than a different type of profile. And it's not that one is better or worse than another, but it gives us that additional lens of looking at understanding and connecting so that you know we know how to relate and build and be with each other.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

Yeah. And we are seeing as part of the DSM, we're seeing disability evolve over time as well. We're seeing not only the definition and qu and uh characteristics of these diagnoses change, but we're also realizing that we need to integrate this into a lifelong model. Uh, for so long, disability, the popular image of disability was with children. And now, as part of the CDC, what we see now is that we're actually getting adult numbers of people who are being diagnosed with things like autism, ADHD, because autism does not end at the age of 18, and neither can our education and support systems around those people. But also realizing that self-discovery that you guys just talked about has to be as significant to the early intervention process as getting them the therapies and treatments to help them within those first five years. Giving a kid the opportunity to understand their diagnosis at the initial state when their parents do, especially if they're developmentally ready to have those conversations, can be so life-changing to them.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

I love it. I love it. And you know, our states do a lot of great to the to the community, but it's it is interesting that after the age of 18, according to the state, you don't have autism anymore, right? The state services are like, yep, you don't have autism anymore. You're fine now. Just go out there and be go out there and do, you know, do whatever. Uh that's why I love the work that you're doing, Carrie, and and bringing this awareness nationwide and helping out this wonderful community. Now, if it's okay if I can pivot, I am, I I like this. So you wrote a book called Autism and Falling in Love. You know, that's I I don't know, like, where did that come from? What was your inspiration? And what are you trying to tell the the um you know the world with your exploration of autism and falling in love?

SPEAKER_02 33:47

I I I just saw that honestly that it was a topic that wasn't being addressed enough in the adult autism community. Oftentimes we talk about employment, we talk about housing, we talk about post-secondary, we talk about guardianship, what will happen to my child when I'm gone. But I didn't see a blueprint or really any educational resources to talk about autism and dating. So that led to me writing a book just on my own journey trying to find love on the uh autism spectrum. I'm thrilled uh to today to say that uh I got engaged last year. Uh me and my fiance. Congratulations. Thank you guys so much. My me and my fiancee are going to get married next May. Uh and I I know how much how life-changing it would have been for me growing up to have more of a guide from someone in the community to help them understand that not only it's possible for those with autism to find love, but also to give them a guide on things like levels of intimacy, uh making sure to be an active listener and ask questions to avoid uncertainty. All these things I broke down into this book to help guide the young autistic individuals who may want to pursue dating but don't know where to start as part of that process. And uh it was one of my favorite books I've ever written. I I've written uh seven books up to this point. Uh me and my fiance are actually we we have a coloring book coming out in in in the fall called uh Autistic People Make Great Friends Too, a coloring book about kindness.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

I love how it's a coloring book.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Yeah, yeah, you know, just just to educate those young individuals, those fair those individuals who might not even have started pre-K yet, a little bit about autism to meet them where they are. So but uh yeah, that that book in particular uh uh will always have a special place in my in my heart.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Well, you know, you're shining a light on what I'd say is a gap, and it's not an intentional one. I think it's a byproduct of how we've approached autism, which is we take such a large emphasis on early intervention, right? It it's it's almost anxiety-inducing because it's like this race. I've got to get all this stuff in before they grow up, I've got to get this done before they become an adult. And then they become an adult, and we're like, okay, now what? You know, I ran out of runway and and are we just left with what we are? Did the did the clock stop? And I'm asking myself now all these questions. And listen, if there's anybody listening out there that has resources to do this, like I would love for you to please follow up on this call to action. Relationships are hard enough. There is a whole business out there for building relationships and relationship therapy and marriage counseling because they're already hard. Taking two people that are different and combining them together is hard enough. And neurodivergent support for relationship counseling and that dynamic is a need and it will continue to be one. And, you know, I'm just thinking, do I even know where to go for that? And I don't because all the tools and all the books, right? All this, all the content is, you know, success for relationships, but in a neurotypical world and with with can you know common relationship issues we already know are there without that layer of neurodiversity. And I love that you're delving into that space. I love that you're shining a light on it and making it a topic that's okay to talk about. And hopefully by shining the light, people will race to fill the void and we'll see some of these resources get developed that help this community. And and because yeah, we we had we had a guest on that wrote that book, Uniquely Human. And his whole premise was you know that that we're all human together. That that autism may express in different ways, but at the core, everything being expressed is a completely natural and normal human response. We all wave our hands up at a sports game when we get excited. Well, they just get excited in a different way. And it might happen in other aspects than at a sports game. And that's what makes it weird, but not that the response itself is not typical. They may mask differently, but to Brad's point, we mask as guys all the time, right? And for the same reasons. So um I love this, I love this call to action, I hope, of let's give them they need all the same resources that we do, um, just with more understanding that there are layers in place that might change how we go about supporting.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah, I agree 1,000% with that. Uh, and that's why I'm just blessed with shows like Love and the Spectrum. I actually know Barry, who uh you you you mentioned uniquely human, is a human uh phenomenal human being, along with a bestseller for that book. Oh my god, great guy.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Big shout out to Barry.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Yeah, big big shout out to Barry.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

I couldn't remember his last time. I believe it's present, and I think it's just I didn't want to get it wrong because I respect him too much. But no, he's he's fantastic. And that that perspective is one I think that needs to be shared. It's not so different. Uh we just experience it different.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

1000%.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

So for our parents out there, they're, you know, how is the best way they can support or work with their kid when they're trying to find these romantic relationships, you know, dating. How's the best way that our parents can help support them?

SPEAKER_02 39:05

Well, I think the most important thing is just to be always open and honest. Uh, ask questions to avoid uncertainty. Uh, also pursue competence with our kids too. Uh, sometimes with the diagnosis, I feel like sometimes we we get into the mode of helicopter parenting really way too quickly. And don't get me wrong, I mean, you are your child's greatest advocate and you will always advocate for them for their needs and their wants in this world. But giving them the opportunity to show their direction via their own wants and motivations uh is really, really important. Uh, not cuddling them in the in this area. And when it does come to relationships, using an online element, uh, again, you you have to have safeguards because catfishing is very, very real in our society. But individuals like even Tanner on this show, it's like he's uh working on uh a neurodiversity friendship app called Wable uh right now, which is really, really amazing. There are dating apps uh for autistic and neurodivergent individuals like Hickey, just H-I-K-I. All of all of these things can be real benefit towards the autistic world who do have sometimes have challenges with going out on dates because of sensory challenges, or do have challenges with eye contact. Uh trying to provide an online uh resource to help them as part of those conversations can be really, really beneficial. And again, uh rejection happens to everybody. I feel like sometimes parents avoid the conversation around relationships until later because they're worried that their kids are already feeling like they have a nine to five job, just trying to get through the days, getting through their IEP meetings, getting through their therapies, making sure they realize that rejection happens to everybody when it comes to dating. And it's a part of this the human condition. We've all been rejected at one point in our lives, but it it it doesn't make us any less of of a of an individual.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

Thank you for normalizing that. You know, I it's uh it's reassuring, you know, just to be reminded that kids are kids, support is support, parenting is parenting, neurodiversity or not. Um all of our kids need to know that we believe in them, that we're here for them, that we support them. Um and you know, we've said it before, as a parent, trust your intuition. You know, the you can beat yourself up as a parent all day long. You know, I don't know what your plans are, Carrie, but uh after getting married, if you ever delve into the world of parenthood, it is its own new unique journey. And I you're talking to you and and having guests on, I think our goal with parents is to always give them reason for hope, for perspective, uh to give themselves grace and to just know that they're not alone, um, that they don't always have to get it right. And through it all, um their kids are more normal and uh have the same type of I guess experiences growing up as other kids and they need support, oftentimes in the same way. So connect, understand, be curious, and trust yourself. Uh you're doing a good job.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Yep. Yeah. Yep. So it's okay, you got a lot going on. You you have a uh you're you're so it sounds like Love on the Spectrum US is gonna come out for another season. Tell us more about projects that you're working on, um, speaking engagements, things that you're involved with that uh so that we can connect with.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm still uh continuing my work as a speaker. So uh we're gearing up for October, which is National Disability Employment Awareness Month. We've already had several businesses online for lunch and learns and other corporate style events where we're talking about the ROI benefits of supporting autistic people in the workplace. Uh, we're also getting ready for another academic year. We already have several schools lined up, K-12 schools, which we will be speaking at, doing student assemblies about the importance of autism and kindness, doing staff defilments on teaching the way that our uh children learn. And uh we're we're going to some really amazing places. We'll be in South Carolina, Turks and Caicos. We're going to so many incredible places to get the word out around the globe about the importance of understanding our autism community. So if people are curious and want to learn more about how we might potentially be able to collaborate, they can go to my website at carymagro.com/slash contact for more information on what that looks like. Uh, in addition, I am coming out with a colleague book with my fiance called Autistic People Make Great Friends Too, uh, which will uh be out in the fall. So get excited about that. And then also I am writing for PBS Kids, which is kind of like a dream come true. I uh got the opportunity to write an episode for a show, which will be out uh next month on August 31st on PBSKids.org called uh Carl the Collector, uh, where uh for the first time ever in PBS Kids history focuses on an autistic main character who's just Carl, an autistic raccoon who likes to collect things. And it's a great show that teaches kids about social and emotional learning and a little bit more about the autism community as well.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Now, do you do any voiceovers with the character at all?

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Uh I I'm I'm currently working on a project which I hope I can share more information about soon, where I hopefully will be doing some voiceover work for children's TV. So stay tuned for that.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

But I know you're a theater guy, and so I I assume you have a really good voice singing, possibly dancing. Does that come against it?

SPEAKER_02 45:02

I I I can't sing for the life of me, but um I I I have been uh uh actively auditioning for uh several films and TV shows in uh honestly the past two years. I've been doing acting workshops to go back to uh this screen after uh being a consultant for so long behind the scenes, wanting to do more uh in in front of the camera. So fingers crossed. You'll you'll you'll see me in something soon.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Well, awesome. Well, Carrie, thank you so much for your time. Anything you like to leave with our uh wonderful folks out there, our wonderful parents who um who've been following your work, any anything you like to leave with them as we wrap up?

SPEAKER_02 45:42

Yeah, I mean the most important thing I tell parents is don't let any one thing in your child's life define who they are. Uh I like to say that autism can't define me, and I define autism. And I can only hope, regardless of any challenge or obstacle you're currently having your lives, that you can go out there and define your lives and your journeys in the way that you best say it every single day.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Well said, man. Well said. Well, Nathan, another wonderful show.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

Well, I love it. I love the perspective, you know, and thank you, Carrie, for giving us such a unique glimpse into the other side of neurodiversity from someone going through the development of it. And, you know, I know your journey is only your journey, um, but we share these stories because in that way we're able to connect, find similarities and purpose. So thank you for what you brought to the show.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Yep. Thank you so much, Carrie.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Of course, and thank you guys for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

It's so important.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Awesome. Well, hey, thanks for letting us be part of your day. If you enjoy the show, please hit the subscribe button so you are always in the loop for more inspiring conversations just like this. A huge shout out to our amazing team, our producer Jesse Palmer, and our wonderful marketing director, Dallas Davis, for making this happen. Until next time, let's do some good.